No Swimming - Keep Out

[Tara Rynieyn]

"Is it safe to go back into the water?"

I was asked that question last week by someone who used to play but hasn't in some time yet whom I respect for their valuable contributions to OOC discussions, starting on AOL, and even crossing over here to DM.

And for the first time in the five or six years that this person and I have been friendly, instead of at each other's throats which was how we began back when we met on the boards in 1997, I didn't know how to respond to them. I did answer the question but before I tell you how I did, I'd like to point out why I hesitated.

This community has gone through many changes over the years, many trends, so to speak. Some good, some bad. Most of the time the changes the community experienced were IC in nature so it didn't matter in the grand scheme of things because players were not affected.

However, there were two trends that I am reminded of here when I write this post, that were OOC and did affect players. A ton of them, if my recollection serves me.

The first trend happened back in 1997. The year I mentioned at the start of this post. During that year and the one following, the OOC boards, at that time called "Players Helping Players" looked more like a demilitarized zone than it did a message board geared toward helping new players learn how to roleplay. The "in" thing to do back then was attack your fellow roleplayer as viciously as you could, in public, for some bragging rights. The second trend started somewhere in the tail-end of 2003, beginning of 2004, where the boards (and the RDI room itself) were overrun with what I liked to call troublemakers but were referred to as hijackers and other not-so-nice names by other players who were just as, if not more, tired of the shenanigans than I was.

I remember this second time, fondly, because it was the first time someone actually had the brass ones to call me a Nazi on the public board. ::chuckling::

For years now, my unofficial nickname has been Tara-ist (yeah..sweet huh? ), so to finally have a new insult aimed at me was like winning Olympic gold. I was so proud of my new title that not only did I contact our board manager and ask that the post calling me a Nazi *not* be pulled, but I put it in my profile and wore it, like a badge, with pride. This upset my detractors so much their "leader" IMed me to question my sanity. He wondered, privately to me and publicly, on the boards, how I could be so amused by his efforts to get me to go away. Like I told him, when you care about something as I have this community, you tend to grow a thick skin and want to protect it.

At the time, and even now, looking back on what I had written and taking it from the opposite point of view, I did look like a Nazi. They felt oppressed. They felt I was an elitist. It did not matter if I, personally, did not agree with that assessment, this is how they felt. Even though I may have disagreed with the initial way they aired their frustrations by creating bash boards, at least they didn't hide behind a "friends-only" blog post I couldn't respond to, but instead came to me directly. Then bashed me like there was no tomorrow on their board

However, the damage these individuals caused to our community over a period of a year to a year and a half is not something I have ever forgotten.

It was, to put it short and sweet, a nightmare.

A nightmare not unlike the one I have seen brewing since I returned to this community back in March. For months now being subjected, almost daily, to situations I'd like to forget but can't because they just won't die, I've been wondering why I returned in the first place. Before I even got to that point though, I have been wondering how any of you, the members of this community, have been co-existing at all, when all I see is rampant hostility and overall rudeness, everywhere I turn.

It seems like every other day there is a different drama. Most of it I like to call OPD or Other People's Drama, which is the type of drama that gets dropped in your lap, the person who was minding his/her own business and suddenly got roped into a nasty OOC situation they never saw coming. But some of it is public drama too and this, to me, is the most dangerous type of drama to have because it leaves a bad taste in the mouths of players and some of us don't forget so quickly, if at all. Some of us become bitter.

It's the type of drama where it is not enough to simply post here on the boards and substitute the person's name who pissed you off with a "Player X" but becomes imperative and absolutely necessary for you to then bash the hell out of them on your personal blog and invite others to do so as well. As they say, the more the merrier!

It's the type of drama where it is necessary to mind another player's business and go tattletale to any of the Admins here about something you saw which personally rubbed you the wrong way. Because yours is the right way and to hell with the rest of us or dissenting opinions.

It's the type of drama where it is OK to out a player on this board by mentioning other SNs of theirs when you know, for a fact, that they did not want this information disclosed nor have they ever outed themselves in public before (which would CYA) but because you know who they play, you automatically feel it is this community's God-given right to know as well. Hey, screw em if they can't deal with it, right?

It's the type of drama where it is acceptable to Narrative-Snipe (a.k.a. Thought-Snipe or Thought-Sult) other players in the rooms because you don't like them, for whatever reason, but for some strange reason otherwise, cannot bring yourself to cowboy up and tell them to their face. You have to humiliate and attack them in Narrative, in front of everyone because you're cool like that. And those of us who roll old school and don't behave like this are elitist scum.

It's the type of drama where it is necessary to bash players in the Lobby because it is a known fact that that particular room is not logged and only viewable by Admins so the chances of the player you are bashing finding out you're talking smack about them is pretty low. As a side note here, if it were up to me, the Lobby would either be gone alltogether, monitored by a Host to prevent player bashing in the first place or logged so *everyone* could see what was being said. I seem to think if any of those were implemented the nonsense of player bashing would come to an immediate end.

It's the type of drama where metagaming information across your various characters is tolerated because, hey, have you any idea how long it takes for a character to become established here? Why should you invest time and effort into playing with someone, having your character get to know them and come by the information you, the player, knows, naturally, when you can just have your character know it from the start? Instant gratification is the way to go, don't you know!

It's the type of drama where when something occurs in the chat room you do not like you go over an RDI's head to complain to an Admin because the RDI in question doesn't know what the *hell* they're doing. And so what if this particular RDI has only been hosting in this community for well over twelve years and was part of the first batch of RDIs on AOL? Why should you care, right? Obviously they aren't doing their job because the offensive person wasn't booted from the room the second you wanted them to be so it's on you to tell their "boss". Because you know better than the RDI. I'd ask why you aren't one then but that's probably mean-spirited. ::Grin::

Lastly, it's the type of drama where isolating oneself and only playing with one or two other people and ignoring everyone else in the room is better because no one wants random interaction anymore. That's a thing of the past and those of us who want to nurture the very foundation this community was built on (i.e. cooperative roleplay) can all go to Hell in a hand basket because we're dinosaurs. Why should you stop what you are doing to have your character notice..hmm.....let's say.....another falling off the RDI balcony and breaking his neck when you can just ignore it and continue your scene? It's no big deal that only two players in a room filled with thirty had their characters notice the death of another. This is the new era of roleplay, man. The rest of us need to get with the program, right?

You'll have to forgive this fossil for getting this off her chest. Someone had to say it judging from all the IMs I've personally received detailing a lot of what I described up above. Yeah, maybe I am a Nazi, still, but I remain an honest one at that.

When I came back I said "I play here too" to someone who does not like me very much and has, ever since I came back, made it a mission to point that out to all my friends and the Internet at-large by writing about me on blogs or talking badly about me in the Lobby but has denied it when I confronted them, even though I was given a log that suggests otherwise. While I do not care that this person dislikes me, it's their right after all, what I don't like is the way they are going about letting me know they don't like me or that they think it is their right to mind my business or the business of my friends by Nannying us to death. As I told them and I'll repeat here, just say it to my face. If you're going to talk bad about me but lock down your blog so I can't respond to it or see it and you have the courage to do that, then have the courage to say it to my face. That's all I ask. You hate me anyway so what do you have to lose?

What does any player who dislikes another have to lose in the same situation? If you confront someone and they refuse to listen to you which also happened to me recently, then hey, at least you tried but to circumvent that and go around behind their back? Not cool.

I don't like bash blogs or message boards. I first said that in 2003, during the second incident I mentioned earlier, because they are not created to resolve problems but to start them. Usually when the problem begins the person who started it then whines that people are picking on them which I find just so confusing because, clearly, it's a ploy for attention, right? I have a hard time understanding why anyone would use what is essentially a personal tool for growth and development to attack, humiliate and drag others down. The same goes for a message board, like this one, which is supposed to be used for friendly debate and the exchange of ideas. How is bashing someone supposed to be beneficial? I still don't get it. I don't get how we go from having a problem with someone but instead of confronting them directly, like I always have because, oh I don't know, I have a spine, we resort to talking about them behind their back and assassinating their character. What possible good can come from this behavior? Honestly, I'm asking.

I'll say it again. I play here too. So, too, do you.

Am I better than you because I've been playing in this community for roughly two point three seconds longer than you? No. Do I deserve special attention because of my length of time? No. Do I deserve to be treated respectfully? Yes and so, too, do you. Everyone who plays here deserves the respectful consideration and courtesy as written about and expected of us in the guidelines.

So, why aren't we following them?

Back to the question which prompted this post. Is it safe to go back into the water? If the water is the community, based on what I wrote above, assuming, for argument's sake, that what I wrote above is true, is it safe?

No, I said. It's not safe. It's nowhere close to being safe. It's not a demilitarized zone as it once was but back then, before it got all nutty, the waters looked relatively calm as they do now. All the frustration that had built up to make it the DMZ it became, took time to develop and eventually came to a head. A lot of us are talking about how this place is unfriendly lately. We're talking about it in IMs, on our blogs and on these boards. Maybe the majority of it is subtle but there's no denying it is there or that we believe it is there. I'm asking for my fellow players to open their eyes and tell me what do we do about it? Do we let it continue? Or do we work together to make it right before it becomes so unbearable that players leave again?

Oh yes, I heard about that when I came back. Yeah. Wow. That's something to be proud of, huh? Mass exodus. Hurt feelings all around. Everyone turning on each other. That's one for the history books. Boards getting shut down here. Admins up to their necks in player disputes they're not supposed to be resolving to begin with? This is something to write home about?

What kind of message are we, the players of DM, right now, sending out? If aliens were to come down from outer space and visit us, what would they say about us, as a collective? What kind of impression would we make?

I hosted the Masked Ball because I wanted to see players come together and roleplay, anonymously, so, for one night, there wouldn't be drama. Over forty five people attended. No drama was to be had that night. I saw it with my own eyes and I am in awe of it.

I don't know about you but the fact that a lot of us were able to play that night and have fun, tells me we can get along. I'd much rather prefer we be able to do it without having to resort to alternative SNs but we did it. I'm proud of that. You should be too. I got a lot of IMs that night. Players telling me they had a blast and I tell you for the first time since I returned I enjoyed myself. Honest to God I did.

I wish I could say the same of every time I visit the RDI but I can't, not with what I observe with my own eyes or hear about.

And you know, that just saddens me to no end. We're not here to hurt each other but to play. I guess I just don't understand why, in my opinion, we aren't doing that.

[Brian Ravenlock]

Amazingly put, Tara. Thank you.
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'Ní dhéanfaimid dearmad díot go deo'

[Soerl Lute]

I don't generally respond to much out here in the OOC area. I also don't really know Tara's player that well. So, let me make this short and sweet, keeping in mind that this is not an insult.

Things get taken far too seriously, between players. This is roleplaying. It's an activity used to have enjoyment. I'm not saying "don't take it seriously." That's not the message at all. It's the fact that things get too much weight.

When something happens in RL, I have to deal with it. There's no pushing it aside, no avoiding it, nothing.

In RP land? If something is bothering me so badly that it's causing me distress, all I have to do is walk away.

[Kairee]

I have had very similar experiences.

It’s not unique to this site. It’s an internet thing…..but it doesn’t excuse the bad behavior.

I have been the target of some people that use or have used this site.

I can honestly say, they are not people I ever respected or even thought about enough, if at all, to determine if I respected them or not.

While my temper may flare on occasion and though I enjoy waxing poetic in my indignation, I honestly, at my core, really don’t give a rat’s *** what they or other people I don’t know and have no relation to think about me.

There are many good people here. There are many reasonable people here. Unfortunately, there are the un-nice and unreasonable people too. They are much fewer in number but it is their behavior that lingers with people and leaves the bad taste for some when they think of Dragon’s Mark and its forums.

Is it safe?

Nothing is ever safe.

But without taking the chance, you never gain anything…you never achieve anything…you never meet the person who isn’t a hurtful egotist.

If you won’t take the chance, we be here at all? (Rhetorical question)
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-Kairee
The Splendiferous One and Mage-Babe Supreme

"With Great Power comes Great Boredom."

[AlexRavenlock]

Powerful stuff.

A glimmer of hope shines in a community of dread.

[Chaos]

But...But I like my community of Dread, we need no hope here. Just all consuming dread!

Glimmers of hope should be banned on sight because they are so bright that people get confused. How are they supposed to relax and bicker amongst themselves endlessly driving themselves further into the pool of infinite drama and pointless aggression when they are blinded by all this so called hope?


As well said as it was. You presume too much to believe that people will actually get along and overcome the drama, their own and drama of others, respectively to actually change.


They are after all, only human what can we really expect from them other then petty bickering and and pointless he said she said crap that nobody will give an inch on or let it go and use it as inspiration to just rise above it and be better?

How many miracles are you looking for? As much as I would like to be proven wrong, chances are it won't happen. So be like me and use their drama against each other and make them both suffer equally, if only to make them better players for it, it is really the only way people get better is if they are forced to deal with the situations they make, themselves instead of getting everybody elses thoughts on the problem and dragging everybody else into it.


Solution.

Make a forum for Drama only. I say if two people have issues they cant resolve we should make a forum folder for them, they can post and just the people involved, and nobody else, can go at it with no interruptions, and nothing to hold them back. Sometimes people just need to fight it out with no outside help.

If nothing else it would be fun to watch the drama wars back and forth when people could really speak their mind and say what ever they wanted to, and felt like. It would really show their true colors and force them to take care of their own problems, and best of all leave the rest of us out of it.

So only productive stuff could go here and the admins could get a break from all the silly player disputes that come up.

I like this idea. But hey I am the one who came up with it so I should like it.


So Drama can be separated from the RP and everybody remains happy as squirrels on a Tuesday!
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Monsters are tragic beings, they are born too powerful and too strong. They are not evil by choice. This is their tragedy--Bob.

[SulissurnXukuth]

[Almighty L]

There are several, several key points here that I'd like to touch upon but before I do, I want to say the following:

I started my RP roots in the RDI. Ten years ago, I stepped foot into the RDI and the rest is history. While I was not pleased with some of the changes that the AOL higher-up decided to make, I have always tried to maintain a level of respect for the players there and the Hosts until they otherwise proved to me they didn't deserve it. That still applies to this day and this post is not meant to insult anyone, point fingers, or generally be taken in a negative light. I am just trying to state the facts as I see them. Thank you.

[SilentEnchantment]

I agree with nearly everything you said Tara.

I come here to have fun and RP. Not to go back to high school.

Most of us are adults or near the age of adults and you'd think we could all act like it. I am not by any means perfect. Have I ever talked about someone, yes. Do I go to extensive lengths to make my thoughts known? No.

I am most willing to play with nearly anybody. But it seems that an elitiest attitude has become dominant for many, and in my opinion to those who wouldn't even deserve such a claim! I'd expect that sort of attitude from some, although they do not. Such as you Tara, who has been playing so long. I could see or understand (perhaps) if you had that attitude, but any character of mine that has ever wanted to interact with yours has been invited to do so and also by many of the other "long time" RPers.

There are those who wish to do nothing more than cause trouble OOC and IC and blend their drama through both. I HATE it. If you don't like me or my play, fine! But do you really need to go to others and say these things?

What goes around comes around. If someone is talking negativly to you about someone else, then they probably are going to talk about you too. Watch your backs.

Because of this, I tend to trust very few people. I have about 3 or 4 people that I regularly RP with and talk to OOC. But I am all for playing and talking with others.

However, these arrogant attitudes and all of the high school gossip needs to stop. We're here for fun and to show of a special talent, not to hurt one another.

Sure we're all going to buttheads and we may not like everyone, but that does not mean you have to go to extensive lengths to hurt someone. Don't be cruel.

I can think of a few people off the top of my head that for NO reason what so ever, have taken to hating me. Most simply because they either do not want to share the spot light because they are attention wh*res or they simply do not like my RP. SO FRIGGING WHAT! Hello THIS is Rhydin! Anyone and Anything can happen, why should we all RP the exact same.

People just need to get over themselves. Take a bit of humble pie and mingle a little. It's really not such a bad thing.

I don't know if Ive gone off topic or not.. but thank you Tara for posting this because I did need to get this off my chest. I've resorted to not playing in the chat often because of the type of drama you've mentioned. Thats a shame. Shame on me for letting people get to me. But shame on those who have to demean others just to make themselves feel better.
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The Admiral's Vamp

[Charlotte Ravenlock]

I've been splashing in this pool since '05. I enjoy, when talking with new players about how long I've been here, that they 'ooh' and 'ahh'. Yeah sure, I'm young and in the grand scheme of things... 8/10 of the the people here have RP'd longer than I have. I look up to them as a few people on this site look up to me.

I haven't had the pleasure of playing with most of them, but I remember just lurking in the chat rooms at times so I could simply watch them play. When I first joined, I was as noobish as one could get. I certainly knew how to write, but my first character... ::shakes head:: I tortured her mercilessly. Over time, I learned how to better cultivate a strong character. With the help of a few select people, I grew to really enjoy my time as a player here. As I racked up the years, I (as claimed by others) felt rather well-liked and looked up to by others. As Rosie's mun so AWESOMELY put it, I "...ran the place."

But then, everything in my RP world came to a halt. Whether by others' drama or my inability to not take EVERYTHING personally back then, I grew discouraged and actually left for quite some time. I found another site to take my character to and have never been happier. But for some reason, about 6 months later, I decided to give RDI a whack again. It was good for a while. I met some new players and even stumbled across two people who have since become my best friends OOC.

But you know what? The ridiculous drama seems to be starting up again. Not just in my own circles of players... but I can see it with other people, too. I fully agree with Tara. Something (and I couldn't even take a guess at what) needs to be done because people will start leaving again. I'd had enough just this past night. I was all hot and bothered about how overwhelmed I was feeling with the site that I decided to take a break. Only, I knew that if I took a break, I'd end up quitting altogether. Oh sure, one person here knows I've threatened to do so a few times, but last night I'd actually gone to Panther to explain the situation and inform him that I'd be leaving.

Thankfully, I've found some middle ground and won't be quitting just yet, but I can say that I'm with Tara 100%. I don't have much to contribute to the conversation other than to share with you that there are people out there who are at their wit's end (even if it's just me). Perhaps I'm a little more self-important than I should be, but, to quote Tara, "I PLAY HERE, TOO!" and I am important. At least, my feelings and thoughts should be.

I've run out of things to say, or perhaps ways to say them, because I've quite a bit of junk floating around in my head that could be helpful.

So is it really safe to get back in the water? I can't answer that, but I'm getting cold and thinking about getting out.
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The words, ideas, and beliefs expressed by the character are not that of the mun and should not be taken as such.

Lilium Inter Spinas ~ The Lily Among the Thorns

[SilentEnchantment]

[Tasha Oberon]

SilentEnchantment player wrote:

[SilentEnchantment]

No harm done Tasha. The "spot light" to me.. isn't something I care about. But, in my eyes, it does or can exist for some. I don't care about being in it. I just mean that people shouldn't expect there to be a spotlight for them just because they want one.. if that makes sense.

And yes. I think the lobby needs to be logged. I have seen people completley rip apart another player for no reason. Its really terrible what people say just because they can.
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The Admiral's Vamp

[Natolii]

What Tara Said...

I don't see the nasty grams. I keep to myself and the groups I work with. I had my body basically tell me I need to back off the stressful things and concentrate on my own health. (Shingles hurt like a sonuva - I'm still feeling the pain even though the outbreak is over).

I am working on reviving Pharos, personally. We are small and trying to get more players interested in a more structured environment. It's not for everyone, but we are striving for the aspects of RP that are missing of late... The fun without the OOC Drama. That's also something I have been striving for in my side projects. I'm not playing elitist. If someone wants in, drop me a line and we can work something out.

I don't need the OOC drama, I don't want the OOC Drama... I have the physical scars from all the stress I've been bringing on myself.

[Almighty L]