Guild Wars Committee

[LordDredd]

Based on the reactions to the Guild Wars thread in the Random Thoughts forum, and discussions with people in the Inn, we've decided to press forward. It is obvious that we are not going to have guilds popping up and a new system to guide them in place overnight. What we would like to do now is form a committee of players to discuss how to best incorporate a more formal guild (or whatever you want to call it) setting into the DM Rhydin universe.

First and foremost, we need to develope a way for everyone to be able to participate, regardless of their main interests here. Some people love to duel with dice. Others like to duel with the free-form style. Some like to just hang out and roleplay in the rooms, others like to write volumes of storylines on the forums.

Guilders and civilians alike should feel comfortable playing together. Guilds are a great tool for generating, maintaining, and driving storylines. But guilds don't just have to fight each other to have fun. That is the great thing about the guild system. You can be a small army, a noble household, or even the crew of a pirate ship. Having guilds around again could generate more activity for players here, and possibly help attract new players and returning noobs like me.

We should have a council of some sort to allow the guilds to have a formal forum for their issues, ideas, etc. I agree with what was said earlier about keeping things simple to begin with and then evolving as things grow.

We would like input from those who may not be overly interested in joining guilds, but might like to see what benefits they could bring to the table. Also, input from the Most Honorable RDIs on how we could incorporate them and create a balance. The main key to success will be to merge what we loved about the old ways with what we love about the new and find that harmoneous balance.

[LdyBelial]

I have some very important questions about this....

1. How are you planning on dealing with the blending Guilds have been known for? DM keeps a strict NO OOC policy for their gaming rooms, that means Guild members must adhere to these rules too. I would like to understand how this will be done knowing as I do how much blending was an issue back on AOL for the guilders.

2. What about those of us who FFRP only and want nothing whatsoever to do with the dicing? No one I know is going to allow a Guild member to Death Match them with unfair dice advantages. How will this issue be addressed? Will we see a new version of "The Wall of Shame"? Or will Respect be given to any and all players associated or not to guilds?

3. As far as I am concerned, Civilians are characters with players too. On AOL, we watched as the "civilians" were walked all over by the high dicing Guild members. We watched as guilds and the Rangers enforced screen name deletions. We watched as regular players not associated with guilds were harassed into guild Assassinations while they were not in any guilds. Are we to see that here on DM now? How will this be addressed Before it becomes an issue? In other words, what kind of safeties are going to be put into place to protect those not interested in dicing or guild-oriented anything?

4. Will the RWC rules be brought over from AOL? Or are all new rules going to be created?


I bring all this up now so that everyone is aware of what we are all facing. It is best to be straightforward and in the faces of all players so that everyone knows their rights.

NO ONE can be forced into anything they don't want to be. That is foundational to FFRP. If we don't want to play it, we don't have to. This includes anything that the Guild members wish to push off on any one of us. No one can be forced to screen deletion or, in DM's case, into character death without express permission of the character's player. In fact... nothing can happen to your character unless you the player say otherwise.


Thanks,
Lanette

[LordDredd]

Lanette brings up several very valid questions, and I shall try to answer each of them as best I can.

1. How are you planning on dealing with the blending Guilds have been known for? DM keeps a strict NO OOC policy for their gaming rooms, that means Guild members must adhere to these rules too. I would like to understand how this will be done knowing as I do how much blending was an issue back on AOL for the guilders.

Answer: It is generally thought that this issue will be handled "in-house" by the guilds themselves. Typically, the average maturity level here is considerably higher than it was on AOL. Most likely members will be asked to keep OOC stuff restricted to PMs, IMs, or the Lobby.

2. What about those of us who FFRP only and want nothing whatsoever to do with the dicing? No one I know is going to allow a Guild member to Death Match them with unfair dice advantages. How will this issue be addressed? Will we see a new version of "The Wall of Shame"? Or will Respect be given to any and all players associated or not to guilds?

Answer: We will be creating a system which allows guilds involved in "warfare" with each other to gain points for their side by various means. These being dice dueling, FFRP dueling, and posting story in storyline threads that are designed to depict the ebb and flow of the battle and the pre-war and post-war interactions. This system should allow everyone to participate in a war between two guilds regardless of their style of play and interest.

3. As far as I am concerned, Civilians are characters with players too. On AOL, we watched as the "civilians" were walked all over by the high dicing Guild members. We watched as guilds and the Rangers enforced screen name deletions. We watched as regular players not associated with guilds were harassed into guild Assassinations while they were not in any guilds. Are we to see that here on DM now? How will this be addressed Before it becomes an issue? In other words, what kind of safeties are going to be put into place to protect those not interested in dicing or guild-oriented anything?

Answer: We plan to make this a priority to address before we even begin. The rules for the war will remain fairly simple in the beginning, then be expanded upon as more guilds become active, and things grow. Initially there will be no "assassination" rules, and once there are, again, these will be restricted to the actual wars being fought. Non-guilded players will be treated like anyone else, and those not wishing to be involved will be respected. Likewise, people not associated with guilds are more than welcomed to petition the guilds to be a part of their storylines and develop a firm relationship between both groups of players.

4. Will the RWC rules be brought over from AOL? Or are all new rules going to be created?

Answer: Most likely the RWC and other forums may be used as guidelines, but an entirely new council of guilds will be created. This is to eliminate any of the "Well RWC was better than FRG, but I really liked, UCoRP, etc etc" arguements.

I bring all this up now so that everyone is aware of what we are all facing. It is best to be straightforward and in the faces of all players so that everyone knows their rights.

NO ONE can be forced into anything they don't want to be. That is foundational to FFRP. If we don't want to play it, we don't have to. This includes anything that the Guild members wish to push off on any one of us. No one can be forced to screen deletion or, in DM's case, into character death without express permission of the character's player. In fact... nothing can happen to your character unless you the player say otherwise.

There is no intentions by me or another else currently associated with this project to ever force our will on those who do not want to participate. Will we try to encourage participation? Yes, most definatly. But we will never force anyone to be a part of something they do not want to be. This will be for those who miss having the old guild wars and want to bring parts of it alive again.

One of the things we are planning to do is host a guild war next month (once we work out a lot of the details) to show people how it will be done. We will pull a CNN and cover the enter thing from initial pre-war storylines to convention discussions, and clear on to final victory. People not associated with the two guilds involved will also be invited to join one of them for the duration of the war to experience first hand how the system will work.

It is our sincerest hopes that the return of the guild system will enhance the level of participation and interaction here on DM, and we intend to take all steps towards nipping problems in the bud.
_________________
Lord Tiberius Dredd
Leader of the New World Order

[NorseLady]

Here are several more questions:


1. How many Guilds are you hoping will join?

2. Where do you plan on holding Guild meetings and Guild wars?

3. How often will there be Guild meetings and Guild wars?

4. How long do Guild wars last in duration, on average?


I'm concerned about a 'take-over' of RP room(s).

Hypothetically, let's say it's decided that all Guild meetings and wars will take place in the Southern Glen. I think it's fair to say those who don't want anything to do with Guilds aren't going to be overjoyed if that room becomes tied up with Guild activities on a regular basis, presuming there's more than two Guilds.

I think it's something to take into consideration.


_________________
~Shy
'Hun-Ulv av Sjøene'
Jeg kommer fra landet av is og snø.

[LordDredd]

Here are several more questions:

These are all very good questions as well, and I will try to answer them as best I can.

1. How many Guilds are you hoping will join?
Answer: Right now we have about four groups interested in joining some sort of guild-oriented system. I do not expect to ever reach the height we did on AOL, but I am optimistic that more will come into existance, or some groups who technically could be considered guilds will sign on.

2. Where do you plan on holding Guild meetings and Guild wars?
Answer: Right now we are thinking of using the Great Hall for council meetings. These will probably be held once a week or every other week. Most likely on a weekend, during the afternoon. Guild wars themselves will be held in special threads for the RP parts and for the combat segments in the arena and back alley. Guilds themselves will probably hold private guild meetings using AIM or YIM. Even using the arena or back alley for a few hours a couple nights a week should not be much of a hindrance considering there are still six other RP rooms available.

3. How often will there be Guild meetings and Guild wars?
Answer: As I already stated, the guild "council" will probably hold meetings once a week or most likely, every other week. We may also set up a yahoogroup to conduct a lot of business via email, and we will have a folder in the forums for a lot of business. As to guild wars, that will be up to the guilds involved. What we are trying to do this time around is make the guild wars more about the roleplaying and interaction than just slinging dice for points. That is why we plan to also incorporate the duel of swords style play and forum posting as part of the overall war strategies, to allow people with varying tastes of play to participate.

4. How long do Guild wars last in duration, on average?
In my experience, most guild wars lasted 2-3 days and were fought in spurts of a couple hours at a time. I suspect it will be similar here. However, I honestly do not expect more than maybe a dozen guilds to be active here at any given time, so I do not forsee guild wars taking place every day, all day long.

I'm concerned about a 'take-over' of RP room(s).

Hypothetically, let's say it's decided that all Guild meetings and wars will take place in the Southern Glen. I think it's fair to say those who don't want anything to do with Guilds aren't going to be overjoyed if that room becomes tied up with Guild activities on a regular basis, presuming there's more than two Guilds.

I think it's something to take into consideration.

My retort:
We have taken all of these issues into consideration and continue to work on solutions. But this is a double-edged sword. Just as it would not be fare for guilders to take-over RP rooms, it is also not fair to not allow guilds and their members to be active and play as well. This is the reason we are looking for imput from people on both sides of the fence, and why we are not jumping into this casually. We want to find a fair balance that will allow both guilders and non-guilders to play, have fun, and whenever possible, interact with each other.
_________________
Lord Tiberius Dredd
Leader of the New World Order

[Amaltea]

[LordDredd]

[LordDredd]

We are not trying to establish some sort of oppressive government where the guilds run everything and everyone else gets crapped on. What we are working on is a modified version of the old guild system to allow groups here to add another level to their play as well as create a basic system to play out confrontations between groups.

This is not something we are jumping into without a lot of planning and consideration. There is no reason why people who prefer to play in groups and people who prefer the solo lifestyle cannot exist in moderate harmony. Over the next couple months, as things develop, we will continue to seek input from the citizenry as well as encourage participation. Next month we intend to host a guild war between two organizations where we will be showcasing how the new system will work for everyone to see. We will be doing a CNN and covering the entire thing from pre-war story arcs to war terms dicussions, to final victory.
_________________
Lord Tiberius Dredd
Leader of the New World Order

[GoGo]

Actually, I am looking forward to see how things go for the "televised war". I know that Dredd and those that jumped on board have probably done a lot of work just to get to the point to stage a mock war. Thank you.

I see any try to get people involved in roleplay as a good thing. Sure, there may be glitches to deal with, there always are. Perhaps I was lucky back in the old aol guild days, I had fun. Even stranger was that the fun was mostly in rping with the others in the guild moreso than the actual wars. The guild experience can be a fun thing.

One suggestion. I seem to recall that some guilds used points systems to determine which types of dice(ranks) was given. One way to earn points by a lot of guilds was recruitment. Not allowing points for advancement through recruitment might be a way to relive some fears some have about constant barrage of enrollment blurbs.

I have another question though, has anyone considered where to draw the line of recruitment vs roleplay?

Example: say your character is sitting in the inn and is a guild member and another charcter asks him/her what they do and the guildmember answers that they are in a guild. Some characters might ask what is that or be interested in hearing more.

Are the guilds gonna get jumped on for "recruiting"?

[LordDredd]

[Shauri]

Well, first of all, I'd vote on this subject except the option wasn't being given to me. Is 20 votes enough to base general opinion on? I don't think so. For what it's worth, I would've picked the middle one. (not sure if I'd be available to be active in one or not, but I'd at least interact with them) Neither here or there, and moving right along...


The big booger in all this is... can dice even be rolled in Dragonsmark forums? I wasn't aware that was even possible and I thought there was some policy against that. I dunno, I should go look that up again. Been a while and it hasn't been an issue before. i.e. out of sight out of mind.

I don't have anything against Guilds, persay (been in several of them on aol) but in my experience it has always been difficult for non dice based players to get along with those in dice rolling organizations.

Free Form vs Gamers. I think some people forget we're All Role Players. FFRP'ers vs RPG'ers. It still ends with Role Players.

If this thing goes, I hope that the admins would make another roleplay chatroom specifically for the dice rolling players to roll dice in. Otherwise, how can the dice be utilized in play around here? I admit I don't know much about how all that works. But I do know rolling dice in any of the existing chats would be a big problem to most non dice based players. Or just about anyone who doesn't want their roleplay interrupted by roll play. It does get annoying to anyone not involved in the dice portion of play and trying to play in the same room.

As for wether or not Guilds would help create activity... I believe it would. Having been in a few guilds, some used dice and some didn't, I know the guilds in general can help create a bond not only for characters but for the players as well. This naturally helps with story lines. As a matter of fact, I think that is what is missing in the RDI area.

I've missed the commaradere generated by the guilds. I had hoped some of that would spark in the Pharos area, but there just hasn't been enough activity overall to support that. Still, there are portions there set up in a guild like manner - Groups, actually. Eh, same concept.

Of course, the other side of that is... I have NOT missed the frenzied pushes and shoves to recruit and participate 24/7!!!!

That was what I hated about guilds, always pushing pushing to post, to recruit, to participate and to write you reports! And if you didn't, there were consequences. They tended to be too demanding with my real life time. So I hope that if the guilds take off here, they aren't quite like that. Busy?, hopefully... Frenzied?, not.

Hope those thoughts help.

[Panther]

[Shauri]